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welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world
with me George Galloway and me Gayatri
for two centuries the clash of ideas
without violence has been a hallmark of
speakers corner in Hyde Park London the
brilliant and the bonkers gather every
Sunday and proselytized Christian
Muslims and Jews Buddhists and druids
leftist rightist and centrist the famous
and the absolutely obscure literally
take to their soap boxes and talk or how
they talk and somehow it never comes to
blows it is a cacophony that has always
fascinated me I first visited speaker's
corner in the 1960s there's a small
child you understand and I still go
today
maybe I've learned a thing or two in the
last half century who knows
our first guest has created a virtual
speakers corner on the Internet and so
the fame of one small corner of London
Park is now spreading worldwide
he's Basheer's I'm from Lebanon the
South of France
the United States well everywhere really
and he's brought his soap box on to the
Sputnik bhashya welcome thank you it is
a fantastic idea I must say a virtual
speakers corner because of course not
everyone can get to London and see the
the real thing where did that idea come
from the idea came literally of what you
just said no one can come to London and
I was lucky enough to visit the
speaker's corner in 2003-2004 before the
social media changed the world and at
that time I was fascinated like well
same words you've used and this is
something civilized Muslims Christians
Jews talking like normal human humans
should talk and my part of the world
this is a dream come true
so after social media I kept going there
due to Facebook Twitter changing the
world I said why not help third world
countries in particular this is because
of Arab Spring at that time to make a
change instead of was easy and Tony's
going and burning himself to share his
message and buying for nothing I said we
need a speaker's corner in every part of
the world not everyone is lucky to
come here but everyone we can do take
add other way around this is how we
started in 2014 and started on the
project and I think we are on the very
right track
now I my wife is expert but I'm not so
expert on the on the technical side of
all this how does it actually work
all right it acts as if you are
literally in the speaker's corner you do
something we call it a beam it's their
video you say whatever you want to
anyone you decide who can watch it most
of the people choose everyone and anyone
any part of the world can attract back
to do either audio-visual or just audio
and you have a very interesting feature
two countries like North Korea say that
have no democracy at all we have an
anonymous feature you can hide your
identity so you can say something by
your voice or you can record documents
or whatever so we gave chances even to
the most likely Tator countries to to
share their opinion and so we have three
features someone from Brazil can attract
to someone London or someone from Israel
or someone from Ukraine or any part of
where you have little freedom speech
Algeria Arab countries GCC countries
anywhere in the world even now in the
States you have too many things going on
so we are allowing everyone to talk with
everyone and no no everything is allowed
and this all have presumably you
download an app it's a free app you
download Aria of course yeah it's
encouraging freedom of speech it should
be something for free of course or yes
it's been you decide the topic basically
people and speakers corner talk about
politics and religion yeah you talk
about anything we think faster but this
sports I think you can share it further
yes that's the point all the languages
so all I've got to do is put my phone in
front of my face and deliver a few
minutes on what I think on the latest
issues of the day and that is seen by
everyone else of course who has the app
if they want to if they want if they are
following you and we have a notification
once once whenever you say something
everyone will know and people can decide
how they comment back we don't have
texting no text and that's for a reason
and I park to discuss not you don't
write a letter and give it
so George is belem texting can create
too many fake accounts like on Twitter I
remember still remember once I was in a
debate in Washington and someone said
the Russian foreign ambassador said so
foreign minister sorry it said something
about Syria and it was a fake account
but until they discovered was a fake
account the treaty made a buzz
so it's either mr. George Galloway or
mrs. Galloway or it's not you cannot
fake because fascinating don't make me
sick so I wish I'd thought how is it
going how's it doing so far so good
like for example snapchat took one one
year to reach 100,000 users luckily and
three months and we come in from
backwards usually we inherit Facebook
Twitter Instagram those platforms and we
were doing this from London and we
started and poor places and where
democracy is really sensitive we're
almost 100 thousand and two months and
we are aiming to reach 1 million and by
the end of this year and we will spread
it like I we were trying to create a
culture or something a synonym for the
speaker's corner everywhere in the world
it's a fantastic concept of course
emerged from specifically British
conditions yes you could never get a
speaker's corner in if you don't mind me
saying Riyadh you could get one in
Beirut but you'd probably be dead by the
by the end of the of the session
George aww is better than war war I
spent as you may know 30 years in the
British Parliament the two sides are
exactly one sort and one foot apart one
you have to stick yes in Parliament and
you have to stay behind the line so if
you stray across the line you can no
longer talk which means literally and
metaphorically
you mustn't come to blows here you can
argue as fiercely as you like
but if you stay behind that red line you
literally can't come to blows even with
our sort so I mean I'm not that proud of
much of what Britain does or has done
but I'm pretty proud of speakers
corner do you find as you go around the
world as you you do that people that the
fame of this place is already
established yes
honest to be honest yes yes this is a
big achievement for London and I'm
privileged to be helping spreading this
worldwide I consider myself lucky to be
able to do this platform and I think yes
we have congratulate for the British
people since 1872 it's not something new
it's something is I was in tremendous
our journey in politics and against the
king of insanity there was governments
changing parties splitting it was a
unique moment that like the moment we
might not be might not be and the reason
I asked you that question is most of the
people watching this will be British and
most of them will never have gone to
speaker's corner because one of the
characteristics is that it's foreign
people who mainly go so you may achieve
something unique you may get British
people now I was starting to key into
speaker's corner in a way that they have
and this is my dream honestly to have
British people on speakers corner it
will make it genuine mmm give it
credibility and everyone is welcome to
share like someone from Israel or
someone from Brazil or any part of the
world can discuss someone from Britain
and definitely definitely it will solve
humanity I come from a place that was
occupied two or three times in my
lifetime so can you imagine how much
freedom of speech was something like
dangerous and if you dare and go to
express your your thought you're either
in jail or if you're a politician you
kill so we need the right part culture
everyone good speakers corner is a must
we live not a mile from speaker's corner
and she's never yeah every time I go
there I have a gusto so civilized it and
of course it can't come to blows on the
internet which is a another good thing
the likes how does it compare with any
other app or is there no comparison with
any other actually or modesty I consider
no there is no comparison because
the first app that allow unlimited video
chats unlimited like usually it's one
way you replied that's it
if mr. George said something interesting
topic you can have 2,000 3,000 4,000
people sending videos either towards you
or between each other it's like a spider
web
until today not even Facebook has it we
have the live streaming and we are more
advanced we'd have the anonymous
anonymous something because I not as
frustrated people wanted to share their
misery but they're scared to say who
when we give it when we give them the
anonymous feature they were talking and
talking and talking and talking this
will change regimes this will change
governments in a good way not in a bad
way in a civilized way because people
are starting to talk they were talking
on this issue on social media and they
change the world now it will make it
even a better place unfortunately if
Edward countries they are always scared
and they just wanna eat and worry about
raising the children when you give them
a feature that they can't express
themselves more without saying who they
are typical for something like North
Korea might someone try and close close
you down could they close you down or is
the internet above all they can try to
close us down but we can we will survive
same as Facebook and Twitter and
Instagram you might be shut down for a
few minutes maybe one hour that's it the
Internet is intelligence as well so can
you imagine well yeah when I entered
Parliament there was no internet no
mobile phones no emails even the fax
hadn't been warranted how's that you see
why I'm slightly backward on the
technical side of it but I'm quite good
on a soapbox so I might just bring a
soapbox to your site and do something
how would I do that I just download the
app now and you can log in from Facebook
or Twitter or an email and you can start
beaming that's it we want to have you
will be honored to have someone like you
on our platform and and how do you do it
what's the what's the address was the
internet that's Hyde Park Corner calm
it's on either corner
dock home yeah
it's a great name I don't know why no
British person of that but mind you I
don't know why the British Royal Mail
didn't think of being Google before
Google if they had maybe with time I
become a British citizen it will go back
to the British people I trust me I
consider this project is for the British
not for me I'm just making some people's
life better at Redwood countries and
where I come from and yeah my partners
for Hyde Park it is correct to be proud
of the things that are worth being proud
of and if you're a critic of Britain
like I am there is something to be proud
of Heydrich or not I come here I come
yeah thank you so much thank you very
much and thank you for us your things
right coming up next a former adviser to
the government of Australia on the
dangerous rivalry between India and
China don't miss it
you
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welcome back to Sputnik the two most
populous countries on the earth
China and India both nuclear-armed are
in a dangerous standoff which could turn
into war at any moment
big news you'd think but it's not big
news or for most people
any size news at all the rivalry is not
just about maps of course but about the
growth and growth of to be a moth
economies and the different political
paths they've taken our guest is dr.
Khedira Pythia goda a former adviser to
the government of Australia a fellow at
the Brookings Institute a former
visiting scholar at Oxford University
and a former diplomat representing
Australia overseas not about TV for such
a young man doctor thanks for joining us
on the sputnik tell the people most of
whom have no idea that there's a problem
between India and China what the
proximate reason for the current
standoff is so there's a disputed border
between the two countries and recently
Chinese troops had begun building a road
sorry I should say there's a three way
sort of issue here so Bhutan claims some
of the land which China also claims and
the Chinese troops had started building
a road on that land and India found that
to be quite a sensitive issue for
themselves because that bit of land is
connected to an area which they call the
chicken neck which is a narrow strip of
land in India which connects India to
its northeastern states and if China
were to have strategic access to that it
would spell quite a significant threat
to India so India then sent troops to
the border and supported Bouton's claims
and Bouton's complaints about China
building that road and then you've had
incidences of stone-throwing between the
troops and it's become a big sort of
diplomatic stash between the two major
powers in addition to the fact that it's
very close to that chicken neck
area.also there's a big definitely true
but I guess also the area which in
India's northeast has seen insurgents
and separatists as well so I think it's
quite sensitive India but also there's a
lot of symbolism associated with this so
if you look at both India and China as
former colonies I guess
India's a former colony and China was
sort of subjugated by the West for a
long time they both have this intense
attachment to protecting their their
territory and so they see that any sort
of infringement on territory is it
really riles up the people in both of
those countries and so for India where
it's a democracy the government needs to
act strong that it's protecting its
territory for China the Communist Party
is legitimacy lays partly on being able
to maintain the territorial integrity of
of China obviously you've got issues
like Taiwan as well so if the symbolic
important is is very great for these two
countries well China has more than one
territorial conflict with more than one
country of course there are conflicts
with Vietnam there are conflicts with
with Taiwan with Japan there's conflict
in the sea there's conflict on the land
I returned to my point china isn't short
of territory so why is it so keep on
expanding its territory or defending why
it says is its territory that is
disputed by other people yeah so I think
that I mean it's it's very interesting
because you've got this sort of dual
messaging going on you've got you know
China having these conflicts with a lot
of its neighbors at the same time trying
to project this peaceful rise of China
rhetoric and Bunnell and benevolent
leader kind of rhetoric where you've got
the belt and Road initiative where
China's tries to project itself as a
peaceful leader and you know employing a
lot of I guess Confucian language in
doing so but at the same time I guess
it's trying to use a stick and carrot
approach so there are certain underlying
tensions with India as well and I think
one of the major concerns for China with
regard to India is if India were to ally
with the United States and countries
like Japan in efforts to contain China
and I guess that's one of China's
greatest concerns is that if there is
some kind of a conflict with the United
States it may be it might have its trade
routes cut off and India is in a very
strategic position to do that in the
Indian Ocean yeah it's a concern bill
you think it's with all the other things
on Trump's agenda yeah well I think the
irony is that it's kind of a
self-fulfilling prophecy in the sense
that if it does push India then it makes
it more likely that India will go
towards the United States yeah so it's
it's quite a difficult issue for them to
handle I think now you describe India's
democracy which up to a point everyone
could agree with though it's a very
imperfect one many many internal
problems and rising tide of violence and
fanaticism you imply that China is not a
democracy I would argue it's a democracy
of a different kind only but the one
thing you couldn't argue with is that
these are two increasingly gigantic
third-world behemoths
huge beasts and surely if they could get
along with each other they'd actually be
able to better beat those who did
colonize them both in the past yeah so I
think that's that's some of the sort of
intentions of China in a sense then that
it tries to I guess through the belt and
road it tries to unite a lot of the
countries in Asia and with itself as
seen as a leader and it is true in that
as to rising developing countries they
have convergent interests in a lot of
areas so in addition to economic
partnerships and trade they both want
I guess fairer global trade rules they
both want a greater say in international
institutions and rule made
they want to reshape the global order
and I think most importantly they both
want a multipolar World Order where it's
not just the West that purely dominates
and other countries also can have
influence so there is a lot of potential
of cooperation there I think if some of
these sort of smaller specific issues
were were sort of gotten over yeah you
see there is no ask I'm wondering if
someone's stirring it up because if I
look at it objectively there is no good
enough reason for China and India to be
at each other's throats
even if at the moment it's just throwing
stones but I could see many reasons why
another power would want to have them
ranged against each other on the
wonderful principle of divide and rule
you could think of nothing more perfect
than the two greatest developing
economies actually being enemies of each
other yes and I mean I think if you're
talking about the United States the Bush
administration you got it I mean the
Bush administration really went a long
way in that I mean that and the rhetoric
around that time was really that they're
going to use try and use India to
balance China and the indo-us nuclear
deal was an attempt to do that Obama
said that India will the india-us
relationship will be one of the most
important so they're really laying out
the red carpet to try and attract India
but I think the the issue is that India
has always had this I guess principle of
strategic autonomy being a post-colonial
country that it never seeks to ally with
any particular country but it will
pursue its interest so I think what
India will do is use the United States
when it needs to get leverage with China
against China it would use China when it
needs to get leverage against the United
States and they'll play that game it has
been a paradoxical period or I mean for
many decades before you were around in
your lofty positions India was an
historic ally of the then Soviet Union
as long as Congress
power you could generally say the India
took a pro-russian pro-soviet line in
things Modi Hindu nationalists of quite
an extreme variety has come to power now
consolidated they would appear his power
but he hasn't taken India entirely into
the American orbit mean he's made very
successful visits to to both China and
to Russia he's spreading his purchases
of weapons and so on across many
countries do you credit Modi whatever
other criticisms I might make of him
with a fairly savvy approach to
international relations to a certain
degree I think he does have that and I
guess I think he's continuing on a
tradition of Indian foreign policy where
they do try to to take a savvy approach
I think that in the Nehru era that you
mentioned they were much more idealistic
and they they sort of they had a lot of
third words third world solidarity with
Indonesia as well and with the
non-aligned movement and I think even
with China they had a sort of good
relationship until the war so I think
that since the end of the 90s though
Indian leaders have traditionally taken
a more strategic approach and I think
that's what Modi has been trying so it's
interesting that you know he's known in
India for having a bad relationship with
Muslims and you know for his his when he
was the governor of the Chief Minister
of Gujarat and there were those riots
there but interestingly he's paid so
many visits to Middle Eastern Muslim
countries and and he's built sort of
strengthened India's ties with a lot of
these Muslim countries so you kind of
good at playing both sides a lot of the
time India is what Russia used to be
said to be an enigma wrapped in a
mystery and so on so the future are the
stones the limit or or might they start
throw something hotter well I think
I would say that it's unlikely that it
would turn into a proper armed conflict
Indians generally quite cautious when it
comes to to Wars and military activity
even with you know a country which like
Pakistan over which it has a great
strategic advantage and obviously with
China it's got a massive disadvantage
and I think China also is really seeking
to contain some of these some of these
issues so I guess it's just a matter of
how they can sell a peaceful outcome to
their domestic populations and have a
sort of political gain and not be seen
to be backing down and I think the BRICS
summit is coming up as well which is a
good place to fix it your excellency
thanks for joining us thank you very
much I know it's your turn to tell us
what you think through the portals of
social media what's rattling Gayatri so
in all honesty I actually didn't know
either about the standoff between China
and India so I looked around on the
Twitter sphere and I couldn't find many
people knowing about it the few that
were around are amongst Saturn and
Dumaine saying China's harsh language on
the top-line standoff
shows it has no intention of treating
India as an equal and Claudio Takeo says
Japan has on August 18 expressed support
for India's stand on its own now more
than two months also clumb standoff
surprise surprise I mean Japan is
supporting India because it's against
China the u.s. is supporting India
because it's against right so it's all
geopolitics but the thing is these
confrontations can easily catch fire and
that's all the tweeting that time for
today which alas means that's the end of
the show but you can stay in touch with
us on Facebook Sputnik on Russia today
or on Twitter and Instagram
RT underscore Sputnik it's goodbye from
me Gayatri and for me George Galloway
it's been marvelous
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